You be the judge....

[blackout\\]

[Sauron]

When did I talk out of my ass? Yes I did play with accel, hence why I was worse for awhile.

[Nick]

Guys JYB and I set up my stream properly. I muted my ingame sound for you people so you can actually hear me click. Also the angle of the camera is different (more clear). I know some people that were having hassitations already changed their minds after watching it. I made the exact same shots as in all the youtube video's that were posted. Including, sweep shots, shots at the edge of hitboxes and also 180 degree shots. Feel free to watch it all back.

The stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gizmo_ut/b/612938437

The demo's of both maps being played: http://www.sendspace.com/filegroup/UtS4 ... FN1hK4cY0w

[wndg]

http://youtu.be/u2tvoF8O9Yc

http://youtu.be/78sF52BEFJg

http://youtu.be/5iepkX9J5Ps

I was expecting you to tone it down not ramp it up. Pretty cute how you tried to augment how many one frame shots you were getting.

A .rar file containing 44 instances of bullshit.
https://www.mediafire.com/?behf3hic99io7bz

[Cromaniac]

Windigo that just goes in Gizmos favor because he was streaming that pug under jybs standards (except lighting maybe? ) Even you said: that stream doesn't count if he didn't make one frame shots

[Sauron]

[Hinata]

[Lineage]

People cheat at gaming conventions with other people watching over their shoulder. Just a thought.

[Nick]

[Cromaniac]

they don't prove everything but they do prove something. As i said, it goes in Gizmos favor. Gizmo is at least doing something to show he s not cheating and openly invites you to make any suggestion on what more you d like to see if he missed something. All you whiny brats do is fraps his shots and state theoretical, unproven and untested bs as some sort of facts. Example: "His shot is ending on end of the hitbox" while there is no hitbox to be seen. And to prove hitbox is not always where body is in nn, i provided a video.

As i see it, we have a person that makes a lot of shots ending very near targets, making same sweep-like misses, who also streams himself and tries a lot to prove his innocence. Then we have a buggy mode in which even when you record a clip from a demo of a same shot twice it can look different. (happened today to me, maybe i ll soon try uploading video of that too). And lastly we have a couple of people that are very bad losers, that have accused everything from A - Z. All things considered, im sorry Sauron, your side is losing badly even in here ;D

[Lineage]

Maybe in your eyes. I see video proof of him sweeping relentlessly (which is a known cheating tactic employed to further accentuate the capabilities of a trigger bot), while making SINGLE FRAME shots repeatedly (also an indicator of cheats), while also hitting the EXACT EDGES of a players hit box repeatedly (yet again, another known problem with cheating).

If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck..It must mean it's a witch, right?

[Nick]

[Junkyardboy]

Okay well just to comment on this entire situation, gizmo messaged me yesterday and asked me to help him set up his stream properly because of my previous post(I suggested he make changes to his stream)...gizmo sent me a pm and asked if I can help him set it up the way I was suggesting so we went on teamspeak together and got his stream set up with a better angle as well we played with his webcam settings to optimize the color/brightness and exposure to have it optimized.to the brightness of his monitor. His new angle and stream isn't perfect, but it was optimized as best as we could with his current web cam which can be seen here:
http://www.twitch.tv/gizmo_ut/b/612916042

He showed me his whole room, and the webcam is probably sitting in the only convenient spot that he can rest it to show the best angle on his mouse/keyboard and monitor.

Once I helped him set up his stream, I was very curious to see how he was going to play and he posted earlier in the thread the link to his stream as well as his demo's, but here's the link for those that don't have it:
http://www.twitch.tv/gizmo_ut/b/612938437

Once it was set up, I gotta tell ya, I was very eager to see if he was gonna pull off the same shots that we have of him on nitro/slimetime etc...and to my surprise, even while streaming, showing all his task manager and processes, it looked pretty damn convincing that he was not cheating, here are the stats for both maps from both slimetime & peak:

212 hits on slimetime:
http://www.ownedwell.com/utstats/?p=match&mid=10004
215 hits on peak
http://www.ownedwell.com/utstats/?p=match&mid=10005

We still don't have an answer as why Nick shoots one frame shots, and that looks fishy as fuck...but when I was watching his stream, I honestly didn't notice anything special...What I did notice though was that Nick doesn't use a dot crosshair, he actually uses a large custom scaled cross.

Here is a screen shot of his crosshair(I figured why not, let's see what it looks like in comparsion to the dot)
http://imgur.com/LMRGl00,4O6v7GJ#0
http://imgur.com/LMRGl00,4O6v7GJ#1

I'm not saying this is proof he's not cheating, but it's something that we all should be factoring in when trying to figure out why his demo's and screenshots look so fucked up...I'd be curious to see how they look with the crosshairs.


Last point...people are also accusing Gizmo's shots of feeling weird and off timed...but I believe this weird phenomenon is due to his acceleration(which he demonstrates towards the end of his stream when his webcam was getting setup during the map grendalkeep).
http://www.twitch.tv/gizmo_ut/b/612916042

The one frame shots makes a little more sense if you factor the actual cross-hair that gizmo uses.


That's all I gotta say, take a second look at the screen shots and the streams before making your decision.

[uenz]

pls record your feet with another webcam too please. You could have a dance mat under your desk activating cheats with your feet.

[kud]

No stake atm, but he doesn't have UnrealTournamentCheats.exe running in task manager, so that clears it up.
Nice work, boys.

[Cromaniac]

[kud]

thanks Cromaniac, I didn't know you could google processes. processes can be renamed to something innocent and also hidden completely from task manager, which makes googling difficult. looking at the task manager is like looking in the ut/system folder for suspicious files

[Cromaniac]

[kud]

I don't have a solution. I'm just saying task manager is unreliable since I see people using it in their decision process

[Cromaniac]

Of course, it shouldn't be trusted blindly, but it should be used in decision process. The more is shown, lesser are chances there is still something going on in the background (in general) and accusations become more and more paranoid. Similar to what uenz mentioned Although thats not too of a paranoid one yet, he could be right

Btw, he doesn't need a special camera for that lol, he just needs to show floor under his desk on the beginning of a stream. But that may have been just a joke, who would know these days ;D

[mng]

[kud]

[Sonic|^]

[Sauron]

Kud nailed it. Why do you think things like keyloggers are difficult to detect? They don't show up in the task manager or any process lists and they don't make themselves known. Antiviruses have trouble detecting them, too (and think, they are actually updated in real time, vs our cheat detection which is updated never). Cheats can easily be designed in the same fashion to avoid detection. Showing your mouse and screen will never be sufficient evidence to prove your innocence.

[kud]

Devil's advocate: if the argument is nick uses a trigger that activates on the outside edge of the hitbox, shots that register during a sweep on the inside and/or the edge opposite to entrance should disprove that theory, no?
I can imagine a sophisticated cheat that doesn't strictly/obviously activate as soon as it collides with a hitbox, but the evidence put against nick involves the edge of the hitbox. While we're being thorough, testing with real cheats should be done to define the behavior being looked for in these video clips. And of course visible hitboxes are needed to measure if shots actually occur on the edge of the hitbox.

Or just send a trusted person over to nick's house to see if they start getting edge shots as well

[KillEmAll]

There us a lot of misinformation, or assumed information about bots in this thread which I don't care to go into.
Since the talk came up about hitboxes, below is some numbers I gathered on a cheat case back in 2007 when I worked for TWL.
For reference, Charlie and Zyphen were hitscan beast at that time and were constantly called out.
The below is for reference only

"To get a baseline, I took two very skilled players, sd.Charlie and pure.Zyphen. I also used TWL matches to do my comparison. Numbers reflect shots on the edge of the box. I discarded shots inside the box, headshots, and shots right outside the box.

Charlie took 264 shots. 35 of them were on the edge of the box with none of them back to back for a total of 13%

Zyphen took 193 shots. 28 of them were on the edge of the box with maybe two of them in a row for a total of 14.5%

B.I on Grendel took 188 shots. 52 of them were on the edge of the box with many of them back to back for a total of 30%

B.I on Pipeworks took 181 shots. 66 of them were on the edge of the box with many of them back to back for a total of 34%

Charlie's and Zyphen's hitscreens are about what I expect to see from good players. Random placement of shots with scattered shots on the edge of the box. B.I's on the other hand are very indicative of someone toggling a trigerbot. It is humanly impossible to put 3 and 4 shots in a row right on the edge of the box, and he does it all through Grendel and Pipeworks."

[northern`]

[RickJames]

Many of what you guys are calling "1 frame shots" and "edge of the hitbox shots" are clearly not lol.

This is what led to spyzy being banned, and vitz released many avis for his case. The ut99 hitbox is huge, and you need a mod showing the hitbox like the one that the admins have to see it. Spyzy was literally firing within the first frame the hitbox crossed his xhair sometimes, and, even to the naked eye, it was clearly significantly farther away from the model than Nick is firing in many of these clips.

A. The only way to determine if a shot was actually fired at the first frame a hitbox was available is to see the hitbox. The admins have this tool, so if Nick was doing this it would be clear to them.
B. While it's possible that Nick was doing that in a few of these clips (impossible to tell with the naked eye), in others he's clearly not.
C. Many good players actually do hit 1 frame shots on the edge of the hitbox occasionally. Both nob and vitz have said that it's doable and happens. It's only when it clearly happens very frequently that it's suspicious.

Just wanted to point this out because it's annoying seeing those terms getting thrown around, when we've already had this discussion during spyzy's investigation.

[Lineage]

I think he did it 44 times over the course of a map.

Lets see unrealshots, jyb, sonic, etc try and replicate. I bet they get maybe 30 on the edge of a hit box on their best day.

[tigerclaw]

giving away trade secrets there guy

having played with gizmo i can say he shouldn't need to cheat to be good, but since he's dutch you never know