CTF-Grudge

[ulo]

This will be the first of a fair few posts. I took the initiative to look through our current league maps from the last two season over at globalunreal. Work has been done by flowX on a few of them so far and first out is Grudge. In the map pack which will be given a download link to in the end it will contain more maps, which I will make posts about as fast as I can.

Before we get started I want to give thanks to flowX for helping me make the changes and being a constructive counter part on some of my more crazy ideas in which he kept me on the ground instead .

So here we go on Grudge!

First thing that made me even want to look at the maps was the side spawns on Grudge, since I feel this is such a small thing to change yet should have a hugely rewarding impact on the map.

From having this view when you spawn on the sides:


You now will have this view instead:


This will make it impossible for enemy defense to spawn kill the sides and should make for a more aggressive offence through the sides of the map.

This spawn down low:


Has also been replaced with two spawns one on each side as such:


Another change to make more offensive pressure and cover through sides. Also we think that with two spawns down low going mid low fast should be made harder and open up for the side routes to be given a try more often.

Lastly work has been done to improve the fps on the map. Mainly by cutting details out as shown here:
Before:


After:


This along with a replacement of the music file that was running should help improve for those people who where used to have fps drops on this map.

We hope to have those maps up on the server for test in the near future.

Now we want your thoughts and criticism, but I urge everyone to be constructive please.

Download link:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-965 ... 5.rar.html

[Bas]

seems nice however too much offense power on this map will make it too hard. Its already pretty easy to get out by jumping the lift especially when playing people who are not familiar with it, maybe something could be modified there around the lift or something maybe a tunnel through the middle or something?

[Viperzz^]

I love the initiative. The spawns at the moment are definitely something that makes running less fun. Edit; Idk about grudge tho

[flowX]

@bas . The spawns we made and edited makin it easier to cut off a flagcarrier. Map should be less lame. ..less caps and less fps drops now.

[HUMPTY]

Don't fix whats not broken, Grudge was one of the few maps that works well in ictf

[ulo]

[finalzje]

Dont like the changes, fixing something wich is not broken is weird. The spawns gave a certain flow to the map.
From a defenders standpoint it can be troublesome to hold at moments, being able to rack up a spawnkill is not lame. It gives the defenders abit of a breathing room.
I honestly fear for my fav map now, farewell my friend.

Edit: the 2 spawns on the bridge are more troublesome then the 1 spawn at each side of the map, i suggest fiddling around with these before doing something so drastic and impactful to one of the best maps in the current list.

[HUMPTY]

The low spawns you added are not very good imo, now if you want to go for a quick grab/run and dodge low u have to watch the bridge above you both sides and behind you.
grudge was one of the few more offence orientated maps why try and change it to defensive

should try the edit to pyrolize map you suggested a while ago on gu forums, that was a good map and definitely worth tweaking (i liked your suggestions on that one)

[Sauron]

Seems like the changes will make it harder to cap. The two spawn points below the ramps in low add another cutoff if you attempt to leave left or right and leaving low is occupied by another spawn point now. Worth testing out but I think it will lead to much less caps which is not a good thing in this case. The only spawn change I actually like is the left and right spawn points, as being spawn killed across the map is just plain stupid.

[flowX]

Ofc it makes it harder to cap. This map Ends like 9-6 Every time. And defenders dont want to Change the side spawns so they can keep spawnlaming for 20 mins isnt a suprise. ... i hate this map like it was andere thats the opinion of most People i have played pug s with. I would say we better trying it in a pug First

[bbz]

[RickJames]

I guess the stuff helping fps is good (although I have no idea who gets frame drops on this map), but I have no idea why you would want to make this map harder to cap. It's seemed pretty balanced as-is with fair teams in league play (I've never seen a 9-6 game in a match, point one out if there's been one). Changes are bound to be controversial, so I think Humpty has a point that it would be better to focus on a map that's less well-liked, like Pyrolize.

[flowX]

many people got fps drops on grudge.. i guess im playing much pugs lately and talking with people about it. but should be much better at this version. many details fixed.

grudge stats.- > last grudge results of ipug : 6-3 -6-2 6-3 10-2 9-2 6-0 and ( only for rj) - 9-6 http://www.globalunreal.com/utstats/?p=match&mid=41324

every game is just jumping high mid and your are done .. or spawning outside and getting spawnkilled for 20mins..there is no map dynamic at all if u play vs some lowsense defender...
side spawns at the ramps givin u a chance to catch the guy goin high mid too..and cut off FC goin side ofc....so ye it helps u to return some flags..and that shouldnt be a problem if u see the last results.
i would like more people posting here which are actually activ on ipug and know how maps feel with the players arround atm..

[Cromaniac]

oh nooo, you ruined the whole fun about it. Now defenders can't compete in who will get more rampages It may be fun to see how many spawn kills you can get, but it really is a retarded spawn. (also it actually might be helpful for the defenders as well, because they won't be staring at one point whole time while people are coming in through high )

Spawns on bridge though can be just as annoying when someone abuses them. Adding 2 spawns to sides instead of one in low middle might take little care of that, but what concerns me about that spawn is defense spawning there when flag is grabbed. Intercepting could be easier but determining where the efc is will be more difficult. If you check low they can start getting right/left and then just jump on the lift while you go back to check right/left. And if you go all the way up the ramp while they go low, its over. Defense spawning in low and going up the lift, gave good overview of where efc is and a chance to intercept him. Also defense spawning inner left, while efc is right would be a very bad thing. And if they spawn on the outer left/right which spawn has been altered a little, at least they can say for sure that efc is not left/right and can jump to check low.

I think main thing about grudge is just that its to short. EFC is on another side in couple of seconds, you mostly get only one chance to intercept him, and that is while he s already almost in mid. Maybe extend the corridors in middle as well as high, or make see through textures

[finalzje]

Im currently out of the country but one thing concerns me and i cant test it.
Since the 2 bridge spawns remain unchanged they can still be easily lamed resulting in easy caps if done correctly, now that the spawn in the corner got moved up to avoid "laming defenders" is that spawn zone completely blocked when someone is shooting the bridge spawns?

[Darkside]

i vote move the side spawn as indicated. no base to base spawnkilling.
fix fps, but don't change anything else.

[pulip]

My thoughts on the changes you've made:

1. Good change! ++++
2. Bad change. Not really needed. Hurts gameplay
3. Making map lighter I can't comment. Never had any problems. Good change for people with problems

[spydee]

remove gay spawn where defender across map can kill you on spawn

map is pretty fine otherwise, but if you want to prevent players from defending up front all the time then make the ramps higher/wider/whatever so it takes longer to check the sides and the middle due to the angles. that way people will be able to sneak in if you play pushed up. i dont think its really necessary thoguh on this map

[rain]

Grudge is fine how it is, the last time flowX (no offence) made changes to Grudge and it was added to Clanbase it was horrendous and completely ruined the map. There's much better things our mappers & editors could be fixing or working on other than Grudge.

Really dislike changes to this map as it already runs competitively well.

[crunk]

I agree that moving the side spawn is essential, nothing like getting stuck in a spawn kill cycle to cripple a team during a flag run.

[Sonic|^]

This map only needs 2 changes. The side spawns moved a bit so they can't be camped, and whatever causes the frame drops in the flagrooms.

[Sauron]

[flowX]

[Monk]

Played a new version yesterday. Not sure exactly of the version number but feedback:

The two spawns added down low are crippling for defenders. You get killed and then are way too many dodges away from the flag post to be able to affect anything.

The moving of the side spawns is ok. I'm not a defender so don't know how much of a problem that is.. Personally I'm ok with the new positions for that spawn and the fixes to the lighting etc.

But the other spawn changes are crippling and have to go

[HUMPTY]

+1 low spawns are awful

[flowX]

oki will remove low spawns and add the one low mid again. keeping the rest

[Sauron]

Looking forward to trying it then flowX. Hopefully it is on the servers very soon. Could be utilized this season.

[flowX]

http://www.file-upload.net/download-974 ... 5.unr.html

side spawns fixed and light + fps edits only...ready to get played this season. upload pls