[saCTF.I] Match Week 4 Results Change

[fisk]

yeah more crap mods for 50 players please i want to keep enjoying life

afk1year

[blackout\\]

[kevinsan1ty]

Remember: if you are not very good at a mod, that mod sucks.

[ttocston]

[Steel]

[Sauron]

[PACO]

[miracle]

first off I dont care what the league is or what ever because honestly i just play this game for the COMMUNITY. That being said.
Tam worked wonders in ut2k4, the only reason I am nervous about having a weapons tournament in general. For those of you who weren't around, or have been around. A lot of the Good players, or even players in general in the weapons community's are not welcoming to new ppl, teaching them helping them. I mean yeah if you have some "good' qualities they may help you.. like acc ect. If your lets jus throw a name out there... ck(nothing against you). and you don't shoot too well in insta, you have problems translocating i mean basically YOU can't do anything useful for your team at all during the pug. They won't help you, they willl shittalk you and they will make you feel like shit. if your like dewsick(dunno if you played weapons so this is just a example) and your shot is dead on. but you cant translocate at all. you suck at comms but your kills.. wow. they may be helpful. Tam when you pug ppl didn't judge you. Now people can post in here saying well we will make rules. Rules wont do anything but keep the best weapon players to not sign up. ie sly zac ect. Now i Personally like both of them but I have been in pugs when they have gone off on someone for their first pug. and multiple other ppl and when i pugged without binds i got cursed out so much i said fuck it lol. Weapons is fun. Tam showed that, but if your going to have a weapons LEAGUE. with a channel used to insta and bring the experienced weapons players THEY NEED TO be more open or it will fail. and tbh I don't ever see that as a possibility

[lavak3]

SUP CSN IM YOUR NEW MEMBER

[finalzje]

Decreased hitboxes don't work, it will only enlarge the skillgap before everyone adjusts.
When it was tested with the smaller player models i remember my accuracy going down abit, after 2 pugs it was right back to 45-50+
I'll give it two weeks with smaller hitboxes, after that the same old problems and accuracies will be achieved again by almost everyone. =]

I like the competitive aspect of ictf/sactf, never will understand this complaining. Turn your anger in motivation to win my friends ^^

[fisk]

[csnafk]

[Sauron]

[Cromaniac]

Sauron, keeping same skin size and reducing its hitbox is a really bad idea. It would just annoy everyone until we get used to where to shoot (just like you get used to shooting heads in sniper), except you'd also have to learn when not to shoot and annoying part of that will never go away. It would feel like playing a broken game.

[miracle]

tbh there is no real way to change the turtle .. but i like pacos overtime method. and windigos thing he said when we were talkin. mightest well make maps geared for offense to handle 3 d and teams to have a 3d setup. truth is if you gotta play 3-4 d on mesmerize then you really shouldnt of put ur 3 bad players on d lmao. im done

[finalzje]

People will get used to those changes and the accuracies and "annoying" playstyle will return, higher skilled players will adjust more easily to those changes and the skillgap will increase.

Overtime method, was that the one where people get kicked and you play 4v4 /3v3?
Does this happen in other competitive games? No, because its dumb.

So what that the opponent plays 3D? it's a competitive game my friends, everything is allowed and every team plays to their strenghts. It is up to the captains or other players to theorycraft a gameplan against this tactic.
Never heard so much wawa in real life about mass defending in sports, guess that this are just dumb ridiculous UT things.

edit: Offensive play is nice and flashy, defence wins championships. \o

[Cromaniac]

..and exactly what finalz says. People who are at the top aren't good because of the size of the hitboxes or speed of their movement. When everyone gets adjusted to new changes, skill difference will remain the same, except that good players will also probably adjust faster.

[NakedMan]

Just add new maps instead of old maps that were played a million times by now ... Adonis instead of duku , NIX instead of mesmerize etc like in factions and it will be a fun and a competitive league.

[RickJames]

I agree with finalz about smaller hitboxes not being the answer. And if you reduce them without reducing player size, you get collision issues. About the mod in general, for me and many others it's not about "wawa". It's not that I have any problem with people who play mass D or think it's lame or whatever. It's just that the mod is so tedious to play and watch that it sucks the competitive motivation and community lifeforce out.

Here's the best solution I've come up with:
The way I look at it, on any map, the problem isn't mainly that you have to kill 4 people in base, but that those people respawn so quickly with fresh opportunities to kill you. Even on the fastest maps, the respawn system will often send waves of players at you, sometimes right in your face.

How to address this? In nwctf, players aren't useful right off of the spawn. I'm sure if everyone spawned with a sniper in nwctf instead of trans/enforcer, the mod would approach the sactf turtle meta. I think we need to find a way to emulate this.

For example, we could try simply copying nw to a degree. Add weapon pickups for the sniper/ig rifle/whatever and spawn players with an enforcer or even no weapon. This might work best with trans added as well (as we tried in telectf). Could also go further and add a piston too, with powerups and stuff or whatever you want to experiment with.

[Cromaniac]

it would also need spawn protection then. Adding that many changes though will drive players off. Many hate translocator. I like the idea of trying it out but it needs careful placement of spawns and weapons. Also, it could potentially change the way game usually works - 3o 2d and would enforce 3d 2o to always be the case as defense spawning without weapons is major handicap. Translocator would remove that problem, but again, i think many players are not willing to start using it.

[RickJames]

Wouldn't need spawn protection! The example I gave is basically nwctf without the other guns. It's just a proposal of a way to address what I see as the core issue- how easy it is to get back in the game off the spawn. I don't see a way to have a better mod without some major changes, I think people will have to adapt no matter what.

3D, 4D, whatever isn't a problem if you kill them and they respawn with a weak or even useless gun. We could even experiment with tweaking enforcer dmg lower etc. Just throwing ideas out there

[Cromaniac]

if there is no spawn protection, spawn killing will be abused to max. Powerless player against someone camping spawns with ig riffle will not go well. By making defense that underpowered is creating a different problem. It can work in league matches but remember that people need to play pugs first too, and no one wants to play 3-4d pugs as a necessity.

I understand and like what you are saying, but people don't have to adapt to anything. Insta gibbers are lazy players by default ;D

[RickJames]

Well, for example, in nwctf they play maps that would be unplayable in ig, 3D and mid play is a standard meta on some maps (pug, league, whatever), and they have a shock that can spam combos at spawns and flag stands. Spawn raping is a standard meta on some maps (like cynosure where the mid guy rapes the enemy shock spawn constantly). Not to mention, they have no laming rules at all, but it's still never turtley except on really extreme maps like november etc.

Why is that? The main reason is that if you kill 3 people in base, they're gonna be scrambling to mid with trans to get weaps and try to cut you off instead of spawning in your face with sniper. Taking out the combos and six packs and playing on much smaller maps will make the game even faster. Perhaps maps like grendel and orbital would be playable again. Plus, people have been asking about nw, so why don't try something that might appeal more to them too?

Also, default enforcer isn't really useless as a starter gun. Has such a fast rof that it'll take a guy out with low health in a less than a second.

Just explaining my pov and expanding the idea a bit more

[Sauron]

Rick, that doesn't solve anything, it just creates an entirely different mod. Changing the basis of iCTF is not the solution to FIXING iCTF.

[Draymith]

It gives me pride to know the "wawa" lives on

[KillEmAll]

[Sonic|^]

[krm`]

[miracle]

[RickJames]

krm, you suggested the same thing I did except you want a permanent shock rifle instead of a sniper or ig rifle that needs to be picked up. And you said my suggestion was too close to nwctf?? lol

Yeah, I think nwctf is (demonstrably) a much more exciting and competitive mod, and I think that a mod that emulates good aspects of it but with a hitscan weapon as the main gun is a good alternative for a hitscan-based CTF mod. You lose all of the turtley-ness, you get something that's way more fun/motivating to play and spectate, and you can still keep many of the core sactf/ictf dynamics and maps while allowing for new ones. Anyone who played telectf will tell you that it's nothing like nwctf dynamically, and my idea is just telectf but without spawning with a powerful gun.